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{{Talk page of redirect}}{{old AfD multi
|date1 = 22 December 2014 |result1 = '''Delete and redirect''' |page1 = Cultural Marxism (2nd nomination)
|date2 = 6 September 2018 |result2 = '''No consensus to overturn''' | link2=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2018_September_6
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| page3 = Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 September 11#Cultural Marxism
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== Semi-protected edit request on 1 May 2018 ==
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::For further discussion, go to [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 September 11#Cultural Marxism]]. See also [[Talk:Frankfurt School#Split?]] as mentioned above by [[User:Samwalton9]]. Samwalton6 left the redirect fully protected, it just goes to a new place, the separate article on [[Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory]], newly created on 11 September 2020. My guess is that this change of the redirect into an article will not be very controversial. The original problem was that people were trying to make Cultural Marxism into a real thing and not just a bugaboo. It would be helpful if somebody would officially close the discussion at [[Talk:Frankfurt School#Split?]]. [[User:EdJohnston|EdJohnston]] ([[User talk:EdJohnston|talk]]) 14:26, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
:::{{re|EdJohnston}} {{done}} per [[Special:Permalink/977887064#Talk:Frankfurt_School#RfC:_Split_(2020)|my request]]. –<span style="font-family:CG Times">[[User:MJL|<span style="color:black">MJL</span>]] [[User talk:MJL|‐'''Talk'''‐]]<sup>[[WP:WikiProject Connecticut|☖]]</sup></span> 16:03, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
:Why is there no Cultural Marxism Wikipedia entry and why is is being redirected to a Conspiracy Theory page? [[User:Isaw|Isaw]] ([[User talk:Isaw|talk]]) 17:50, 22 August 2024 (UTC)
::"Cultural Marxism" was never the primary name given to the field that Wikipedia addresses as [[Marxist cultural analysis]]. The conspiracy theory isn't related to any "real Cultural Marxism", because the conspiracy theory isn't based on anything real, and the field of study you are talking about was never widely known as "Cultural Marxism".
::Perhaps more to the point: repeated, widely participated discussions have consistently reached the consensus that the only encyclopaedic topic referred to as "Cultural Marxism" is the conspiracy theory. [[WP:CONSENSUSCANCHANGE]], but there isn't any evidence that it actually has. [[User:Newimpartial|Newimpartial]] ([[User talk:Newimpartial|talk]]) 02:18, 23 August 2024 (UTC)
== Move discussion in progress ==
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There is a move discussion in progress on [[Talk:Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory#Requested move 11 September 2020 |Talk:Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory]] which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. <!-- Talk:Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory crosspost --> —[[User:RMCD bot|RMCD bot]] 18:52, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
:and on that page they say to come here? Looks like a Wikipedia conspiracy? :) [[User:Isaw|Isaw]] ([[User talk:Isaw|talk]]) 09:41, 23 August 2024 (UTC)
== Convert to disambiguation ==▼
::That was back in 2020. People have been kvetching about this for ages and it never gets anybody anywhere.
::There does not seem to be a redirect proposal active at the moment. The correct place to start one would be at [[WP:RfD]] but please let me save you some time before you go and bother them. The redirect is correct. It is not going to be changed. There is no magical rhetorical formula that you can contrive which will bamboozle us into changing it incorrectly. All you are doing is annoying people and it is time to stop doing that. --[[User:DanielRigal|DanielRigal]] ([[User talk:DanielRigal|talk]]) 18:21, 23 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Why is there no Wikipedia entry for "Cultural Marxism" and why is the page for Cultural Marxism diverting to a conspiracy Theory entry when Cultural Marxism is NOT a conspiracy theory? [[User:Isaw|Isaw]] ([[User talk:Isaw|talk]]) 20:43, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
:::2020 or 2010 is irrelevant! Cultural Marxism was an established academic field in the 1980s and 1990s and it is being misdirected to a page which claims Cultural Marxism is and always a far Right conspiracy Theory. How do Wikipedia correct this? [[User:Isaw|Isaw]] ([[User talk:Isaw|talk]]) 20:47, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
::And in case you think that Daniel's assessment is just a single voice, let me assure you that it isn't. --[[User:JMF|𝕁𝕄𝔽]] ([[User talk:JMF|talk]]) 20:20, 23 August 2024 (UTC)
:::It doesn't matter if multiple editirs say Cultural Marxism should not have its own entry in Wikipedia and should instyead redirect to a Conspiracy Theory entry if they happen to be WRONG and Cultural Marxism is #NOT a conspiracy theory. How does one get Cultural Marxism to have its own actually factually true and reliable entry and not be misconstrued as a Conspiracy theory? [[User:Isaw|Isaw]] ([[User talk:Isaw|talk]]) 20:46, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
::::There are many cases where a topic name has multiple meanings and thus multiple articles. When there is a clear [[WP:primary topic]], as in this case, then that is what the article of that name is about. The existence of article(s) about the other topic(s) is identified at the top of the primary article using a [[WP:hatnote]] such as {{tl|other uses}}. So you would need to write an article (or section of an article) about the academic field and then use the hatnote mechanism to highlight it. Does that help? [[User:JMF|𝕁𝕄𝔽]] ([[User talk:JMF|talk]]) 22:53, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
::::Please note that Wikipedia's preferred article title for "Marxist cultural studies"/"the cultural turn in Marxism"/"cultural Marxism" is [[Marxist cultural analysis]]. You could propose to move that article to [[Cultural Marxism]], but an overwhelming consensus has concluded on at least five occasions that the main topic of "Cultural Marxism" is the conspiracy theory. [[User:Newimpartial|Newimpartial]] ([[User talk:Newimpartial|talk]]) 00:55, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
▲== Convert to disambiguation ==
{{hat|This thread has been dead for more than a year. There is no point in trying to revive it.}}
In the spirit of [[WP:BOLD]], healthy compromise, ease of finding information, and in light of the lack of consensus in both [[Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory]] and [[Marxist cultural analysis]] as to how the articles should be named, I've changed the page to offer links to both articles. Both articles have links to each other, and one of the few mutual agreements between both sides of the discussion on both of the pages concede that the term "Cultural Marxism" can refer to both the application of Marxist theory to critique of things other than class, or to the alt-right conspiracy theory that uses it as a basis.
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:::::You're welcome to open a new RFC to attempt to [[WP:CON|change the existing consensus]]. You are not welcome to simply ignore the existing consensus because you [[WP:IDONTLIKEIT|don't like it]]. Your editing career is likely to be short if you continue edit-warring against established consensus. [[User:NorthBySouthBaranof|NorthBySouthBaranof]] ([[User talk:NorthBySouthBaranof|talk]]) 02:23, 22 December 2021 (UTC)
::::: (e-c) The consensus reached consistently in many, many discussions since the 2014 [[Cultural Marxism]] AfD is that the conspiracy theory is the only RS topic with this name. If you are convinced of the contrary, "Redirects for Discussion" is the relevant venue. [[User:Newimpartial|Newimpartial]] ([[User talk:Newimpartial|talk]]) 02:24, 22 December 2021 (UTC)
::::That isnht true! Cultural Marxism was used decades before the Modern conspiracy Theory! For example Dennis Dworkin. Cultural Marxism in Postwar Britain: History, the New Left, and the Origins of Cultural Studies. (Post-Contemporary Interventions.) Durham, N.C.: Duke University Press. 1997. [[User:Isaw|Isaw]] ([[User talk:Isaw|talk]]) 17:52, 22 August 2024 (UTC)
*'''Oppose disambig''': the term "cultural Marxism" refers to the conspiracy theory; they are one and the same. The redirect should stay (and perhaps should be EC protected, or fully protected). --[[User:K.e.coffman|K.e.coffman]] ([[User talk:K.e.coffman|talk]]) 19:37, 22 December 2021 (UTC)
*:No it doesnt and the talk sectioon of the redirect says that the Conspiracy Throry is a different topic to the previously established field of Cultural Marxism!
*:For example
*:Dennis Dworkin. Cultural Marxism in Postwar Britain: History, the New Left, and the Origins of Cultural Studies. (Post-Contemporary Interventions.) Durham, N.C.: Duke University Press. 1997.
*:So why is this subject entry being redirected to a conspiracy theory? [[User:Isaw|Isaw]] ([[User talk:Isaw|talk]]) 17:54, 22 August 2024 (UTC)
Bit underhand that Cultural Marxism redirects here, and not to Marxist cultural analysis page. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Obsteve|Obsteve]] ([[User talk:Obsteve#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Obsteve|contribs]]) 16:28, 21 February 2023 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
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[[User:Sennalen|Sennalen]] ([[User talk:Sennalen|talk]]) 17:19, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
:You are quoting two non-experts, launching broadsides in the preface to a book which is not about {{tq|Cultural Marxism}} in either of the senses you are discussing. If you actually intend to bring {{tq|the actual consensus of RS to the topic area}} - well, that consensus isn't reflected in these co-authors writing outside their field to defend their choice of book title, and it isn't {{tq|that "cultural Marxism" is a phrase that is also used entirely free of conspiracy connotations to refer to the Frankfurt School or Birmingham School}}. The phrase has been used aleatorically to refer to any number of things, but there isn't any notable or consistent usage outside of the conspiracy theory (and only a minority of recent RS even entertain the question, which you propose to answer, against
::Beibei Guan is a lecturer of European philosophy who did her doctoral thesis on Baudelaire and Benjamin. Wayne Cristaudo is Chair of Politics at Charles Darwin University. [[WP:SOURCEGOODFAITH]] [[User:Sennalen|Sennalen]] ([[User talk:Sennalen|talk]]) 17:42, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
:::Exactly my point, though. Neither has any demonstrated expertise in conspiracy theories, or on the Frankfurt School, or on the Birmingham School for that matter. They situate themselves outside of "cultural Marxism" according to every attempt you have made to define it. [[User:Newimpartial|Newimpartial]] ([[User talk:Newimpartial|talk]]) 17:48, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
::::I am not going to [[WP:REHASH]] your personal OR again. Bring sources. [[User:Sennalen|Sennalen]] ([[User talk:Sennalen|talk]]) 17:57, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
:::::Sources for what, though? I can't demonstrate a negative. [[User:Newimpartial|Newimpartial]] ([[User talk:Newimpartial|talk]]) 18:04, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
:You cant use a 2019 Source to propose a field of study is a conspiracy theoryu when BOOKS were published decades before in thaty academioc field! Dennis Dworkin. Cultural Marxism in Postwar Britain: History, the New Left, and the Origins of Cultural Studies. (Post-Contemporary Interventions.) Durham, N.C.: Duke University Press. 1997.
:and thewre are plenty of peer reviewed articles form the 1`990s and 1980s. It does not matter what opinion of someone in 2019 is! There was wide . WORLDWIDE , publication on "Cultural Marxism" in the 1990s and 1980s and before! And they were poublished by marxist and left leaning academics and not by extreme right groups! [[User:Isaw|Isaw]] ([[User talk:Isaw|talk]]) 17:58, 22 August 2024 (UTC)
{{hab}}
== Disambiguation page ==
Someone has created [[Cultural Marxism (disambiguation)]] last week. How do other editors feel about this? [[User:Newimpartial|Newimpartial]] ([[User talk:Newimpartial|talk]]) 23:00, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
:This is a multi-page [[WP:CROSS-POST]] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Cultural_Marxism&diff=prev&oldid=1256434995][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_theory&diff=prev&oldid=1256435859][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Marxist_cultural_analysis&diff=prev&oldid=1256436333]. I suggest moving the discussion to [[Talk:Cultural_Marxism_(disambiguation)]]. [[Special:Contributions/87.116.177.103|87.116.177.103]] ([[User talk:87.116.177.103|talk]]) 23:27, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
== [[:Cultural Marxism (disambiguation)]] has an [[WP:RFC|RfC]]==
<div class="floatleft" style="margin-bottom:0">[[File:Ambox warning orange.svg|48px|alt=|link=]]</div>'''[[:Cultural Marxism (disambiguation)]]''' has an RfC for possible consensus. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the '''[[Talk:Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_theory#RfC:_Cultural_Marxism_DAB|discussion page]]'''.<!-- Template:Rfc notice--> Thank you. [[Special:Contributions/87.116.177.103|87.116.177.103]] ([[User talk:87.116.177.103|talk]]) 11:22, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
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